Message index

12/05/09 23:59 David Samuel Baltuch Score-gesture-sound
07/16/09 10:25 Emily Yiannika Shostakovich
04/21/05 22:59 Jenny Mozart Violin Concertos
12/04/04 10:41 William R. Bauer Researching sources on prosody and paralinguistics, as related to vocal music
06/29/04 19:18 Brad Lehman Bach's keyboard temperament?
03/13/04 04:33Heinzel Kunsmann Augmented 6th chords
11/05/03 02:34 Meaghan Lacey Nineteenth century improvisation
04/04/03 19:04 Tay Boh Tsun music as image - a single ontology
04/03/03 09:00 Tay Boh Tsun Semiotics of Popular Music [was: Asking some advices]
03/11/03 17:08 Roger Clough music as image - a single ontology
09/10/02 03:16 Giovanni Nulli Asking some advices
07/13/02 07:33 Tim Moore Lampl's Article re Mozarts of Today
03/09/02 17:20 Michele Ignelzi <> Re: How or why does music influence society ?
03/09/02 17:20 EUNOMIOS staff <> Re: Question
02/27/02 12:28 Frank Librio How or why does music influence society ?
02/26/02 12:36 John Maus Question
04/06/01 13:42 Michele Ignelzi <> Re: The "H" chord
04/01/01 15:01 --- The "H" chord
01/16/01 22:33 Craig Clark ideology
12/22/00 18:36 Victor Grauer response to Craig Clark
12/21/00 09:09 Craig Clark Fw: [ANN] New Online Journal
12/05/00 23:34 EUNOMIOS staff <> Welcome to the forum!

Date: Sat, Dec 5, 2009, 23:59
From: David Samuel Baltuch
Subject: Score-Gesture-Sound

Dear readers of Eunomios,

The abstract of my projected conference about musical meaning and gestural meaning, in the frame of the semiotic chain score-gesture-sound, has just been published in this very site.

I would highly value any comment on my proposed thinking path, or any info, of any kind, about such a study having been done before in a similar direction or not.

Thank you very much for your time.

I look forward to reading your input.

Best regards,


Date: Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 10:25
From: Emily Yiannika
Subject: Shostakovich

Hi Im trying to analysis two Shostakovich preludes op 34. Number 3 and number 11. Im having problems working out his modulation and structure.

Would appreciate any help thanks, Emily

Date: Thu, Apr 21, 2005, 10:41
From: Jenny
Subject: Mozart Violin Concertos

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have read your site with much interest. Can someone please tell me what to study to go into extreme depth on the Mozart violin concertos? I would really appreciate help. I would like to do a book of analyse of them as no one seems to have done one with great depth. I play the violin and want to study them as well. Are there any textbooks out there that perhaps I am missing?
Thankyou in advance.

Date: Sat, Dec 04, 2004, 22:59
From: William R. Bauer
Subject: Researching sources on prosody and paralinguistics, as related to vocal music

I am currently analyzing Aaron Copland's settings of Emily Dickinson verse, in order to gain a deeper understanding of Copland's readings of the poems. To this end, I'm examining on a microscopic level the music-text relationships in each song--considering, for example, how the vocal line Copland created reflects American speech intonation, or how the text's phonemes and word accents may have shaped the vocal line's realization. Does anyone here know of research on English language prosody or paralinguistics, as they relates to text settings by song composers? Any help would be most welcome.

Many thanks in advance,

William R. Bauer, Ph.D.
The College of Staten Island/CUNY

Date: Tue, Jun 29, 2004, 19:08
From: Brad Lehman
Subject: Bach's keyboard temperament?

A review of the paper by John Charles Francis, "The Keyboard Temperament of J. S. Bach", is posted at

Bradley Lehman

Date: Sat, Mar 13, 2004, 04:33
From: Heinzel Kunsmann
Subject: Augmented 6th chords

Hi all! I'm doing a research paper on the history of augmented sixth chords. Does anyone know how the chords received their names - Italian, German, and French?
Heinzel Kunsmann

Date: Wed, Nov 05, 2003, 02:34
From: Meaghan Lacey
Subject: Nineteenth century improvisation

Hi all- I'm writing a thesis on the decline of improvisation in nineteenth century music performance and am having a difficult time finding relevant research. I welcome any and all comments, suggestions, opinions and leads. I'm reasoning that the decline is due to overtly structured compositions of the time, lack of flexibility in the performing space and audience expectation. I would like to add more depth to these arguments and also to consider different approaches, for curiosity's sake. Thanks!!

Date: Fri, Apr 04, 2003, 19:04
From: Tay Boh Tsun
Subject: music as image - a single ontology

Hi Mr.Roger Clough,

That is an interesting idea. I have read that book of Lawry and was thinking of how it could be applied to music.
I think you have done just that. Looking forward to read your article.

Thank you.

Tay Boh Tsun

Date: Thu, Apr 03, 2003, 09:00
From: Tay Boh Tsun
Subject: Semiotics of Popular Music [was: Asking some advices]

Dear Giovanni, I am researching into similar topic and faced similar problems that you have.
But on the analysis of popular music I think there is a good article that you may want to refer to:
"Introductory Notes to the Semiotics of Music" by Philip Tagg which can be downloaded from:

Best regards,
Tay Boh Tsun

Date: Tue, Mar 11, 2003, 17:08
From: Roger Clough
Subject: music as image - a single ontology


I thought I would post this selection to get some feedback before putting it into a
paper. Comments very much appreciated. For example,
do any of you know any other theories treating music as image?

- Roger Clough

Music as Image
by Roger Clough

Bates Lowry, in "The Visual Experience" [(1967) Abrams], gives
separate chapters on the visual experience of art, seven of which
seem ideal to use as categories, both for images and for music.
The order in which he presents these is very insightful,
for it appears to be the order in which the mind would perceive an image,--
that is, roughly, the order of importance. Thus we identify them without change as
meaning the same as the sequence of numbers from 1 to 7.
The traditional meanings of those numbers is given at the bottom.
From these, we have:

                 Ontology of Music or Image

                           Unity of
                    /           |               \
                Subject  <-  Relationship  ->  Context
                  (5)            (6)             (4)
          /        |        \             /        |          \
        Line  Light/Dark   Color        Line   Light/Dark   Color
         (1)      (2)       (3)          (1)      (2)         (3)

where these are defined as:
The Seven Categories of Image and Music

1. Line. (fire) As image, this gives an intuition of the image, is what is seen first. In music it is the lead or melody.
1-strong (dominant), 2-submissive or broken, 3-pointing, 4-regular or pattern, 5-dynamic or sensual, 6-gentle, 7- static
2. Light and Dark. (water) Both in image and music this gives the general mood.
1-bold or light,showing effect of light, 2- relational (as in still life), sparse, misty, shadowy or dark,3-dramatic, stark or contrasting, 4- balanced or symmetrical, 5 open (landscape) or opening, 6- illuminated, 7-closed or bordered
3. Color. (air) Both in image and music this gives the personality, the voice.
1- bold or bright, 2- soft or pastel, 3 - clashing, 4- muted 5- multicolored, or variable shading 6 - harmonious, 7- dark
4. Context (Pictorial Space). (earth) In image, the background, in music, the accompaniment.
1- independent 2- pressing or enclosing 3- clashing, 4- patterned or regular, 5-
5. Subject (Objects in space). (air) In image, the foreground, in music, the lead.
1- powerful, dynamic, 2- gentle, quiet or slow 3- inventive 4- regular or patterned, 5. sensual, adventurous, suggestive, 6- harmonious or constant, 7 - dark or distant, resting
6. Organization of Subject and Context (Visual Order). (water) In image, how the subject matter relates to the background. In music, harmony.
1- independent 2- fitting into or blending with background, 3- clashing, joyful, 4- neat, organized, 5- dancing together, 6 - harmonious, 7.- restful
7. Unity of Expression. (fire) An intuition of wholeness or returning home in image and music. The feeling left when done observing.
1- unified 2- relational, 3- novel or creative, 4- precision, all in its place, 5- incomplete, sensual, suggestive of change, 6- all is well 7- complete
Traditional Meanings of Numbers

1. fire - intuition, initiation, individual, the divine, infinity, wisdom, ambition, courage, and the God.
2. water - feelings, relations, harmony, cooperation, wealth, mystery, occult, and the Goddess.
3. air - thinking, creativity, children, heavenly powers, the triple goddess, love, truth, wisdom, joy.
4. earth - the practical, dark, construction.
5. air - variability, the sensual, humanity, freedom.
6. water- devotedness, family, beauty, love, wisdom, responsibility.
7. fire- temporary completeness, pause, spirituality, contemplation, wisdom, mystery, perfect order.

[8. strength, materialism, and eternity.
9. completeness, the end of a cycle, major life changes.]

Within each category there are seven types, as given above by the meanings of numbers.
This produces a 7x7 matrix. For any given image, each category will have a number
describing that category. The same is true for any given measure of music.

In addition, for music there are chord sequences that have been found
for each of the 7 notes of the scale.


Date: Tue, Sep 10, 2002, 03:16
From: Giovanni Nulli
Subject: Asking some advices

Hello, I'm Giovanni.

I'm studying Communication sciences in Siena, and I'm writing a dissertation in textual semiotic. I choose to try analyze music (contemporary pop rock production). Shortly, I found this decision harder than I thought at the beginning, mainly for two reason: I havent' found a main theory, but just a myriad of books or essays with different approaches; the most of the studies are on classical music, so the most of the attention is on (I'll write in Italian because I don't know the right word in English, you can translate it) la forma dell'espressione. In the contemporary pop music, because sociological and technical reasons, is important to consider la sostanza dell'espressione, the music as sound.
So I'd like to ask some advices:
First of all, which book(s) I should read because is too important to be ignored? (I read Music and emiotion, Meyer, and I'll give a look soon to AA VV, La significazione musicale, tra musica e retorica)
Is there any essay or author who use semi simbolic approach to the music?
Is there any essay or author who analyze the music as sound?

Many, many thanks for answers. In these days, infact, I'm deciding to go on with my work or leave it, because I'm not able to manage music and semiotic propertly.

Giovanni Nulli

Date: Sat, Jul 13, 2002, 07:33
From: Tim Moore
Subject: Lampl's Article re Mozarts of Today

Professor Lampl unfortunately has deferred to the authoritarian argument that those in power dictate cultural standards and norms. To this he attributes the dearth of Mozarts today - or at least the unanimous recognition of new Mozarts. While this may have been true in the days of Emperor Franz Joseph, it is not true in the days of the Clinton and Bush White Houses. Other possibilities are plentiful.

Recorded music has changed the landscape. People can listen repeatedly to favorite pieces without attending concert performances. Music is background or foreground, depending on the awareness of the listener. In addition, listeners are now also watchers who expect performers to "look" like the source and soul of the music they play. The chasm between Bob Dylan and Richard Wagner is more than one of self accompaniment. Dylan's was / is a libretto and a look born of Guthrie, Chaplin and Rimbaud, not of Goethe and Nietzsche.

Not only has Classical music had to endure the fracturing of Impressionism, Cubism, Surrealism, Dadaism, Expressionism and onward. It has also had to endure the modern culture of Celebrity, the need for musicians to "look" like transcendental Gods and folk heroes simultaneously, the programmatic synchronization of music with film since 1929, the deconstruction of repetitive trance and groove structure imposed upon the sonata and symphonic form. This recolutions alone has manifested in rock, funk, rave, atmospheric, Glassian and techno music. The shortening of attention spans and the mandate of visual images both certainly threaten the long symphonic form.

There are so many currents affecting the receptiveness of the music listening public that Lampl's authoritarian argument seems quaint and simplistic. Who is writing music history today? The answer is: Anyone. Just as anyone can call a Jihad in the Muslim world, anyone can declare a movement in the modern and post-modern Zeitgeist. There is no Pope anymore. So the remaining question then is: What fundamental or unchanging principles are in operation, outside our notice, that will determine which pieces are still around a hundred years from now? What principles are still in operation now, despite the shifting currents of fashion? This question poses a major challenge to our musicological perspective, detection and analysis, which, unfortunately, Mr. Lampl has ceded too easily to the power elite.

Tim Moore

Woodstock, NY 12498

July 13, 2002

Date: Sat, Mar 09, 2002, 17:20
From: Michele Ignelzi <>
Subject: Re: How or why does music influence society ?

A quite difficult question! Perhaps some (alas, not updated) bibliographical references could be of help:

Engel, H. 1991. Music and Society. In International Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences. D.L. Sills, ed. New York: Macmillan, vol. 10, 566-75.
Honigsheim, P. 1989. Sociologists and Music: An Introduction to the Study of Music and Society. K.P. Etzkorn, ed. New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Publishers.
Shepherd, J. et al. 1980. Whose Music? A Sociology of Musical Languages. New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Publishers.

Michele Ignelzi

Date: Sat, Mar 09, 2002, 17:20
From: EUNOMIOS staff <>
Subject: Re: Question

Could you please send us a scanned version of the Josquin example you quoted? We are puzzled by that progression, especially because of the six-four "chords" and the use of F sharp in a supposedly non-cadential context. By the way, are you interested in "adding accidentals" in modal music as a historical praxis or from a perspective of present-day composition?

Best wishes,
Damiano Giorgi
Michele Ignelzi

Date: Tue, Feb 27, 2002, 12:28
From: Frank Librio
Subject: How or why does music influence society ?

Date: Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 12:36
From: John Maus
Subject: Question

Does anyone have any information or ideas related to
modulating in modal music (i.e. D Mixolydian to A
phyrgian). Bearing in mind that what is meant by
"modulating" is adding accidentals thus excluding
transitions such as D Dorian to E Phrygian and so on.
How about modal chord progressions in general, does
anyone have any information on how to generate those
in a manner similar to early music (before they were
even aware of verticalities--- i.e. Josquin Desprez
Beautiful, Beautiful progression.. which lacks the
obviousness of maj/min V7 tonality to explain it....
And thus I beg of you, please help me... How can I
get more progressions like this? How can I modulate
in modal music and make it more interesting?
Thank You

Date: Fri, Apr 6, 2001, 13:42
From: Michele Ignelzi <>
Subject: Re: The "H" chord

I've delayed my answer to your question in order not to stifle debate... ;-) Anyway: yes, in German-style notation (also adopted in Finland, and dating back to the Middle Ages) B (not B B) corresponds to Bb, and H to B.

Best wishes,
Michele Ignelzi

Date: Sun, Apr 1, 2001, 15:01
From: ---
Subject: The "H" chord

I'm an American musician, working in Helsinki Finland. I recently was playing guitar in a big band and ran into the chord "H dimminnished." I thought it was a typo for "A" and OUCH! After the song was over I asked the keyboardist about this. He told me they have "Bb" (they call it B B) and call B "H." I can't find any one here who can explain the background of this change. There was one girl going to the Sibelius accadamy, but she couldn't explain it in English. Anyone know anything?

Date: Tue, Jan 16, 2001, 22:33
From: Craig Clark
Subject: ideology

The issue of ideology most certainly has not been exhausted in the semiotic literature.
Even if it were, everyone has a unique perspective on the subject. I think "reading between the lines" is fine for poetry, but when it comes to philosophy you really should spell it out. Surely, you have something more to say on the relationship between words, symbols and ideology!

As I recall, you alluded to Picasso and Schoenberg, or said something about serialism and abstract painting. Kandinsky's writings on this subject are quite fascinating.

I'm not a Saussure expert, but Derrida quotes him concerning ideas existing before words.
The Platonic ideal vs. Aristotle's categories, or materialism vs. pluralism a la William James leaves a lot of room for thought in this age of parallel universes.
Craig Clark
Musical TOE

Date: Fri, Dec 22, 2000, 18:36
From: Victor Grauer
Subject: response to Craig Clark

Clark writes:
> I read a couple of
>the articles by Victor A. Grauer and he leaves
>a lot of questions unanswered. Namely, the
>ideological basis of semiotics and meaning in
>music- a very shallow treatment from someone
>purporting to write a Unified Theory of the Arts.

I'm pleased to learn that Mr. Clark has read my MTO paper as well as the
new one at EUNOMIOS. A unified theory is not the same as a comprehensive
theory. I very much agree that semiotics has an ideological basis. This
is in fact one of the principles I present in the MTO paper (see

"[1.3.12] A third principle is the result of poststructuralist insights:
every syntactic field is a construct with an ideologically determined basis.

[1.3.13] In other words, there is no such thing as a passive or even
neutral ground. The fields associated with all signifying processes are the
products of culture and reflect ideologically determined value systems
enforced by explicit or implicit rules."

But I am not attempting to deal comprehensively with this, or any, single
issue. Since both in this paper and the EUNOMIOUS paper, I am primarily
interested in laying out fundamental principles, and, moreover, since the
issue has already been exhaustively dealt with in the extensive
poststructural literature on semiotics, I did not feel the need to
elaborate on the question of ideology per se. Nevertheless the affects of
ideology are everywhere to be found in what I have written for anyone
knowledgeable enough to read between the lines. This is especially true
wherever I speak of the "repressive" effects of the syntactic field. My
primary concern in these papers is not with ideology per se, but those
aspects of semiotic *infrastructure* which make ideological effects
possible. I am also concerned with going beyond the rather limited
poststructuralist take on such issues, which, wrongly IMO, insists that
systematic investigation must give way to informal *bricolage.*

>Kandinsky has much more to say about
>serialism and abstract painting than Picasso ever did.

Sorry, I don't get the point of this statement. Did I quote Picasso

>Linguistic nihilism quickly becomes trivial in the
>face of flesh and blood listeners who scale
>metaphysical heights when listening
>to Wagner's Tristan.

I have no idea what you mean by "linguistic nihilism." My EUNOMIOS paper
is an attempt to get beyond the usual dichotomy "linguistic model" vs.
"purely semiotic model." I assume you have some problem with Saussure?

>By the way, I am playing
>a piano/vocal score of Tristan these days. I
>just checked it out of the library. Funny, you
>should mention the Tristan chord, what exactly is it?

The very first time we hear four notes sounding at once, after the initial
three notes in the 'cello, we hear what is sometimes referred to as a
"half-diminished seventh" [3,3,3,4]. Because this chord is, possibly for
the first time, given such prominence, and plays such an important role
generally throughout the entire opera, it has come to be known as the
"Tristan Chord." In both "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun" and
"Tristan" it tends to function very much like an augmented 6th, as a
dominant preparation.

Victor Grauer

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000, 09:09
From: Craig Clark
Subject: Fw: [ANN] New Online Journal

To the editors:

This magazine is a nice start. I hope to see
a few more articles soon. I read a couple of
the articles by Victor A. Grauer and he leaves
a lot of questions unanswered. Namely, the
ideological basis of semiotics and meaning in
music- a very shallow treatment from someone
purporting to write a Unified Theory of the Arts.
Kandinsky has much more to say about
serialism and abstract painting than Picasso ever did.
Linguistic nihilism quickly becomes trivial in the
face of flesh and blood listeners who scale
metaphysical heights when listening
to Wagner's Tristan. By the way, I am playing
a piano/vocal score of Tristan these days. I
just checked it out of the library. Funny, you
should mention the Tristan chord, what exactly is it?

Craig Clark
Musical TOE

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000, 23:34
From: EUNOMIOS staff <>
Subject: Welcome to the forum!

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